White House Tape # 1134:

Haldeman: – an interrogation, which he did, and that- the FBI guys working the case had concluded that there were one or two possibilities: One that this [Watergate Break-in] was a White House… they don’t think that there’s anything about the Election Committee [The Committee to Re-Elect the President]. They think it was either a White House operation that had some obscure reasons for it, non-political-

President Nixon: Mm-hmm.

Haldeman: Or it was-

President Nixon: Cubans-

Haldeman: The Cubans and the CIA. And after their interrogation of-

President Nixon: Colson [Charles Colson, Special Council to the President].

Haldeman: Colson, yesterday they concluded it was not White House, so they are now convinced it is a CIA thing. So the CIA turnoff-

President Nixon: Will I [unclear] Helmes [unclear] get that closely involved.

Haldeman: No Sir. We don’t want you to.

President Nixon: You call him. Good. Good Deal. Play it tough. That’s the way they [FBI] play it and that’s the way we’re gonna play it.

Haldeman: Yes, Sir. Now on another matter-

President Nixon: The Committee [Committee to Re-Elect the President]

Haldeman: No, Sir. The Israelis were here yesterday-

[Rest of Conversation Classified by the Department of Justice]

President Nixon: Mm-hmm

Haldeman: And they want us to speak with Justice [The Department of Justice] about investigating a possible Nazi living here.

President Nixon: In the White House? [Laughs]

Haldeman: [Unclear]…No, no. In the US

President Nixon: A Nazi?

Haldeman: Yes, Sir. They think they’ve tracked a Nazi collaborator to Cleveland, Ohio

President Nixon: You mean they have been running their own dog and pony show [intelligence operations] here? In America?

Haldeman: No. No, Sir. They received a tip and they want us to follow up on it.

President Nixon: Well it’s always something with these guys.

Haldeman: Yes, Sir.

President Nixon: It’s always something.

Haldeman: Yes.

President Nixon: I mean, if it’s not weapons then it’s Nazis.

Haldeman: Mm-hmm.

President Nixon: Well, who is it?

Haldeman: The Israelis think that-

President Nixon: That we’re harboring Nazis?

Haldeman: It’s a man called John Demjanjuk. Or [Unclear]… Ivan Demanyuk. He’s a Ford auto-worker up in Cleveland

President Nixon: Mm-hmm.

Haldeman: And they received a tip that he’s actually someone called Ivan the Terrible

President Nixon: Ivan the Terrible [Unclear]. That’s a good nickname.

Haldeman: Yes, Sir.

President Nixon: I guess the FBI wouldn’t push me around if I was ‘Nixon the Terrible’.

Haldeman: No, Sir.

President Nixon: No. Well, what do we know about this Jyvan?

Haldeman: Ivan, Sir.   

Nixon: Mm-hmm.

Haldeman: Not much, Sir. He immigrated from the Ukraine after the war. He received citizenship because he passed the-

President Nixon: The INS [Immigration and Naturalization Service]

Haldeman: Yes, Sir and-

President Nixon: So. He’s an American. They can’t go chasing down Americans.

Haldeman: Yes, Sir.

President Nixon: You tell them that.

Haldeman: Well-

President Nixon: Does he pay taxes?

Haldeman: Yes, Sir.

President Nixon: Has he been to jail?

Haldeman: No, Sir-

President Nixon: Well that’s that than.

Haldeman: Yes.

President Nixon: He’s an American. Tell Meir’s people [Golda Meier, Prime Minister of Israel] they can’t go chasing down Americans.

Haldeman: Sir-

President Nixon: I have enough trouble trying to run a country with this mess [Watergate] I don’t need Nazi hunters running around [Unclear]… trying to arrest people in Cleveland. Tell them to look for Nazis down south [South America].

Haldeman: Sir, he’s on the list, though.

Nixon: List?

Haldeman: Justice [The Department of Justice] has a list of immigrants who were possible Nazi collaborators and he’s on it-

President Nixon: Mm-hmm.

Haldeman: And this is the kind of thing Justice could use against us.

President Nixon: So what did this Jyvan do?

Haldeman: Well if the Israelis have it right- they have a file- then he was a concentration camp guard.

President Nixon: Mm-hmm.

Haldeman: And he operated some gas chambers.

President Nixon: Well… All right then you just-

Haldeman: Keep this away from Justice?

President Nixon: That’s right, you just keep away from Justice.

Haldeman: Yes, Sir.

President Nixon: But keep this away from Henry [Kissinger].

Haldeman: Sir-

President Nixon: Cause he’s in here every day telling me it raining-

Haldeman: Yes-

President Nixon: But it’s actually Henry [Kissinger] pissing on my back.

Haldeman: [Unclear] Yes Sir-

President Nixon: And I don’t need him pissing on my back right now.

Haldeman: Yes, Sir.

White House Tape # 1221:

Secretary: I have Dr. Kissinger now, Mr. President

President Nixon: Yeah

Secretary: Thank you.

Kissinger: Mr. President-

President Nixon: Henry, are you in New York or here [the White House]?

Kissinger: No I’m here [the White House].

President Nixon: Yeah, so what’s…what’s new this morning?

Kissinger: Ah, nothing of great consequence [Unclear]. In fact, there’s nothing really going on. The Chinese keep meeting with the Russians.

President Nixon: Yeah.

Kissinger: But not with us.

President Nixon: Yeah.

Kissinger: So, that’s the problem.

President Nixon: Yeah.

Kissinger: Mr. President, I got a call yesterday from Mrs. Meier [Golda Meier, Prime Minister of Israel]

[Rest of Conversation Classified by the Department of Justice]

President Nixon: Mm-hmm.

Kissinger: And she wanted to know if there was any progress with the investigation?

President Nixon: Mm-hmm

Kissinger: So I said ‘what investigation?’ and she said something about a war criminal-

President Nixon: Mm-hmm

Kissinger: And I said I would ask you because I-

President Nixon: Yeah. Now, Henry you tell her that we looked into it and we aren’t going to proceed.

Kissinger: Yes, but-

President Nixon: You just tell her that.

Kissinger: Well-

President Nixon: This is not something I’m going to peruse.

Kissinger: Well she told me that this was a real priority for them-

President Nixon: Well not now.

Kissinger: Sir?

President Nixon: It’s not a priority for me, now.

Kissinger: Well, the thing is-

President Nixon: We don’t know anything about this man.

Kissinger: Well they do.

President Nixon: I mean all we know is that he lives in Cleveland.

Kissinger: Well they do, Mr. President. They know about him.

President Nixon: Mm-hmm.

Kissinger: And if this gets out-

President Nixon: What?

Kissinger: That he’s here, in America-

President Nixon: Mm-hmm

Kissinger: I mean if this gets out this could reflect quite badly on us.

President Nixon: Mm-hmm.

Kissinger: I’m not talking about the Jews.

President Nixon: Yeah.

Kissinger: I’m talking about the media.

President Nixon: Yeah. Yeah.

Kissinger: If it gets out that we knew, and did nothing-

President Nixon: Yeah. Well you just tell her [Golda Meier, Prime Minister of Israel] this is not my priority-

Kissinger: Well Sir, I think that this is the kind of thing that she [Meier] would appreciate you see, personally.

President Nixon: Mm-hmm

Kissinger: So this thing is leverage-

President Nixon: Yeah.

Kissinger: And we need leverage to mover her [Meier] on the Egypt issue-

President Nixon: You think so?

Kissinger: Well yes, Mr. President. This could be Golda’s Eichmann.

President Nixon: Yeah.

Kissinger: And after China this is the next issue.

President Nixon: You mean Egypt.

Kissinger: Yes, Sir. This could press the Russians-

President Nixon: Yeah.

Kissinger: Press Russians out of the region. And you know it’s raining now in the Middle East.

President Nixon: Yeah.

Kissinger: I mean the tensions are mounting.

President Nixon: Yeah.

Kissinger: So I think we should think about this.

President Nixon: Well I don’t know much about this-

Kissinger: Yes.

President Nixon: Because they talked to Haldeman [H.R. Haldeman, White House Chief of Staff].

Kissinger: Yes.

President Nixon: So you talk to Haldeman and you get back to me.

Kissinger: Yes, Sir.

Nixon Tape # 1251:

Haldeman: Now, on that investigation, you know the Democratic break-in thing, we’re back to the problem area because the FBI is not under control, because Gary doesn’t know exactly how to control them, and they have- their investigation is now leading into some productive areas. Because they’ve been able to trace the money, not through the money itself, but through the bank-you know sources, the banker himself. And…and it goes in some directions we don’t want it to go. And the-

President Nixon: The Cuban thing-

Haldeman: Yes, the Cuban story. The problem is that the FBI now has this banker and it’s leading them away from the Cubans and CIA-

President Nixon: Story.

Haldeman: Yes, Sir. And so we-

President Nixon: So they’re perusing this new banker angle.

Haldeman: Yes, Sir. And the problem is that we have more and more people being involved now-

President Nixon: Mm-hmm.

Haldeman: So we are losing our ability- you know from here in the White House- we are losing our ability to control this thing.

President Nixon: Yeah. You know what the problem is-

Haldeman: Sir?

President Nixon: They [FBI] have too much time.

Haldeman: Yes, Sir.

President Nixon: They just have too much god-dammed time on their hands-

Haldeman: Yeah

President Nixon: So all they can do is look into this thing [Watergate Break-in].

Haldeman: Well that’s my concern.

[Rest of Conversation Classified by Department of Justice]

President Nixon: So I want you to talk to Dean [John Dean, White House Council]

Haldeman: Yes-

President Nixon: And I want Dean to go the FBI, and tell them about this Jyvan fellow.

Haldeman: Sir?

President Nixon: The Nazi-

Haldeman: Oh [Unclear]… Demanyuk.

President Nixon: The Nazi the Israelis are talking about.

Haldeman: Yes.

President Nixon: And I want Dean [John Dean] to light a real fire under their asses, you see.

Haldeman: Yes, Sir.

President Nixon: I want the FBI to find out everything they can about this guy.

Haldeman: Yes.

President Nixon: Because this administration isn’t just goanna let some Nazi roam around free.

Haldeman: Yes, Sir.

President Nixon: I mean we have a moral-

Haldeman: Obligation

President Nixon: Obligation that’s right. A moral oblation to find out about this fellow.

Haldeman: Yes, Sir.

Nixon: Because this isn’t Russia where mass murders walk around free.

Haldeman: Yes.

President Nixon: I mean this could be a whole can of worms. Who knows how many Nazis are up there.

Haldeman: In Cleveland?

President Nixon: Yeah. And Justice [The Department of Justice] can’t do it.

Haldeman: Sir?

President Nixon: ‘Cause they knew about this fella all along. From that List.

Haldeman: That’s right.

President Nixon: And I don’t care if this Nazi works for Ford, or General Motors or the White House.

Haldeman: Yes.

President Nixon: I want him looked at-

Haldeman: Thoroughly

President Nixon: Thoroughly. Now where are we on Colson [Charles Colson, Special Council to the President]?

Haldeman: Well we assume that he will be deposed again soon.

President Nixon: Well that’s a problem.

Haldeman: Yes, Sir because-

President Nixon: Because I want him to fly to Israel.

Haldeman: Sir?

President Nixon: I want to him to go over and talk to the Israelis. I want him to look at the dammed files. I mean the Israeli know more about this Nazi then we do.

Haldeman: That’s right.

President Nixon: That’s right. And no FBI deposition can get in the way of this.

Haldeman: Yes.

President Nixon: And you know that I can’t send Henry [Kissinger].

Haldeman: Aha.

President: Because he’s too close to the whole thing.

Haldeman: The break-in.

President Nixon: The Holocaust.

Haldeman: Yeah.

President Nixon: So if Henry [Kissinger] can’t go, Colson [Charles Colson] should go. 

Haldeman: Yeah.

President Nixon: So our focus now is not this Cuban thing but this Nazi guy.

Haldeman: That’s right.

Nixon Tape #1432:

President Nixon: Well, rather hard day, wasn’t it?

Kissinger: Well, I mean it was hard for you-

President Nixon: Yeah.

Kissinger: I didn’t know you had made the statement you did until the evening.

President Nixon: Yeah.

Kissinger: And I think it’s amazing how you conducted the meeting this morning

President Nixon: And then going through the evening-

Kissinger: And then going through the evening.

President Nixon: The problem I have is that I can’t look at this [Watergate Break-in] the detached way I should. I mean these people are yelling ‘throw them out and go on’. Just personal things… I mean god-dammed. I think of these good men [Unclear].

Kissinger: Who wanted to do the right thing.

President Nixon: I mean its goanna splash all over them. And eh…anyway…

Kissinger: Well I think the way you have positioned it now is the right way to do it.

President Nixon: I mean they want me to announce that I’ll fire Haldeman [H.R. Haldeman, White House Chief of Staff] and Ehrlichman [John Ehrlichman, Assistant to the President for Domestic Affairs] without waiting until… the real culprit is Mitchell of course [John Mitchell, Chairman of 1972 Presidential Campaign], he was in charge of the whole god-dammed thing and John Mitchell should step up like a man and say ‘Look, I was in-charge and I take the responsibility, period.’

Kissinger: Exactly. All the more so now that he’s doing the opposite.

President Nixon: No… they’re gonna get them.

Kissinger: Well, I think firing Haldeman would make him the villain.

President Nixon: Well, in the end he’ll probably have to go Henry. They’re gonna…you know… rip him up good.

Kissinger: Well, if that’s the case then he should get out before.

President Nixon: Not until I have absolute evidence. I’m not gonna fire a guy on the basis of a charge made by Dean who’s basically trying to save his ass…and get immunity, you see. That’s why I had that phrase in there; that no immunity should be granted to a [unclear] person. I mean he’s got no right to do that.

Kissinger: I mean, I think that’s outrageous. I don’t think you would have improved the situation if you would have suddenly, without any preparation, turned on all your associates.

President Nixon: Yup.

Kissinger: And eh…

President Nixon: Well, we have two or three rough months ahead. It’s gonna be real rough…

Kissinger: Now the major thing now, Mr. President, if I may say so, is to protect the Presidency and your authority.

President Nixon: It’s gonna be hard because some of these people will even piss on the President if they think it will help them.

Kissinger: Well-

President Nixon: And i’m the only one of the whole bunch who didn’t know a god-dammed thing about it until March when I finally said -well here it is. What you should have done months ago.

Kissinger: They [Unclear] got deeper and deeper.

President Nixon: That’s right.

Kissinger: But I think the absolute thing is to protect-

President Nixon: Well if we can-then we can. And if we can’t-then what the hell…

Kissinger: We can, we can Mr. President

President Nixon: I’ve even considered the possibility of, frankly, just throwing myself on the sword and saying what the hell.

Kissinger: No, no, Mr. President. With all due respect that can’t even be considered.

[Rest of Conversation Classified by Department of Justice]

President Nixon: I mean the real problem is that dammed Kat Graham [Owner of the Washington Post].

Kissinger: Yes.

President Nixon: I mean it’s her paper that ruining…

Kissinger: Lives.

President Nixon: Yup, lives…of good men.

Kissinger: Exactly.

President Nixon: All she needs is something to bite her teeth into…something that isn’t this god-dammed break-in [Watergate Break-in]

Kissinger: Yes.

President Nixon: Because once the papers leave this, so will the FBI.

Kissinger: …

President Nixon: All I need is some time, god dammed it. Henry have you heard from the Israelis?

Kissinger: You mean about Sadat [Anwar Sadat, President of Egypt]?

President Nixon: No, no, I mean about their Nazi. The one they found in Cleveland. Haldeman thinks the FBI will get interested in this Nazi if the Israelis request extradition.  

Kissinger: Well, I think they’re really rattled over there.

President Nixon: Yeah.

Kissinger: You know they’re pretty certain that he’s going to attack.

President Nixon: The Nazi?

Kissinger: No Sir, Sadat.

President Nixon: Oh, yeah. Well can this Nazi thing pressure her [Golda Meier]?

Kissinger: I don’t think so. Now it’s different.

President Nixon: Yeah.

Kissinger: Now she’s [Golda Meier, Prime Minister of Israel] preoccupied.

President Nixon: Well it’s a good story Henry…

Kissinger: Sir?

President Nixon: I mean if we get this Nazi-

Kissinger: Yes.

President Nixon: It’s a good story. I mean we’ve never found a Nazi in America.

Kissinger: Yes.

President Nixon: So, what do you think?

Kissinger: About what?

President Nixon: Should we grab him? This Demanyuk fella? I mean we can still arrest him, can’t we? And if Justice [the Department of Justice] decides to indict him, then we may be looking at a lengthy trial. Before extradition.

Kissinger: …

President Nixon: Very lengthy. I mean this could be Nuremberg all over again.

Kissinger: Well the problem is that they’re not sure…

President Nixon: In Israel?

Kissinger: Yes, in Israel.

President Nixon: Sure that it’s the guy?

Kissinger: No, no. They know it’s the guy. I mean they identified him. They flew in a Holocaust survivor.

President Nixon: Yeah.

Kissinger: And he positively identified the guy as the Nazi.

President Nixon: Well…what are waiting for? Let’s grab him.

Kissinger: But now the Israelis don’t want him.

President Nixon: Well why the hell not? Didn’t he kill them?

Kissinger: Well Meier [Golda Meier] feels it would be a distraction.

President Nixon: Distraction? It’s brining a man to justice, Henry.

Kissinger: Yes.

President Nixon: I mean justice has to be served, Henry.

Kissinger: Yes.

President Nixon: Always. Justice has to be served.

Kissinger: But Meier knows that if Sadat does attacks it will be bloody.

President Nixon: Yeah

Kissinger: I mean she told me they expect thousands of causalities

President Nixon: Yeah.

Kissinger: They’re in a tight spot.

President Nixon: Yeah.

Kissinger: And she needs the Israeli press on her side to justify a war.

President Nixon: Mm-hmm.

Kissinger: And to justify her decision not meet Sadat and avert a war.

President Nixon: Mm-hmm.

Kissinger: So Meier doesn’t want any distractions.

President Nixon: Ah…Yeah…Well, Henry, talk to her again.

Kissinger: Yes, Sir.

President Nixon: And tell her we’re ready to do the right thing here.

Kissinger: Yes, Mr. President.

President Nixon: I mean, if the Israelis want him, then this Demanyuk could be a real life saver-

Kissinger: Yes.

President Nixon: A real life saver. He could buy us a lot of time….

Kissinger: Yes.

President Nixon: Yeah. He could do some good for a change…

Kissinger: Yes, Sir.

[End Tape]